Discussion:
Turning Trotsky into pro EU
(too old to reply)
Vngelis
2016-05-15 09:15:07 UTC
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http://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1106/without-monarchies-or-standing-armies/
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-15 10:28:21 UTC
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Leon Trotsky, The Program of Peace, The Socialist United States of Europe
- written as a series of articles toy Trotsky in 1915-16

"Relevant" extracts:

"If the war, in consequence of the ever increasing number of combatants and of fronts, has become an equation with many unknowns thus, rendering it impossible for the different governments to formulate the so-called “war aims,” then the small states still have the doubtful advantage that their historical fate may be reckoned as predetermined. No matter which side proves victorious, and however far-reaching the influence of such a victory may be, the fact remains that there can no longer be a return to independence for the small states. Whether Germany or England wins – in either case the question to be determined is who will be the direct master over the small nations. Only charlatans or hopeless simpletons are capable of linking up the question of the freedom of the small peoples with the victory of one side or the other."

Trotsky didn't have much respect for small nations: Belgium, Serbia, Turkey, Bulgaria, (Greece OF COURSE!), Romania...

His sweep over the European map rivals that of Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt at Yalta & Potsdam.

Of course today, under the heel of this "historical imperative", the small nations of Europe seem to be developing other, "reactionary" ideas.
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-15 10:38:18 UTC
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He doesn't exclude other. The list continues: Portugal,Ireland, Holland, the three Scandinavian countries, “Independent” Poland, Switzerland are all mere victims of Trotsky's "illusory character of (small nation) “sovereignty”. So grin and bear it!

Trotsky goes on:

"...the small states still have the doubtful advantage that their historical fate may be reckoned as predetermined. No matter which side proves victorious, and however far-reaching the influence of such a victory may be, the fact remains that there can no longer be a return to independence for the small states. Whether Germany or England wins – in either case the question to be determined is who will be the direct master over the small nations. Only charlatans or hopeless simpletons are capable of linking up the question of the freedom of the small peoples with the victory of one side or the other."

and

"Exactly the same result would follow the third and most likely outcome of the war, that is, its ending in a draw. The absence of pronounced preponderance of one of the warring camps over the other will serve only to disclose all the more clearly the preponderance of the strong over the weak within, each of the camps, and the preponderance of both over the “neutral” victims of imperialism. The termination of the war without conquerors or conquered is by itself no guarantee for anybody: all small and weak states will none the less be conquered, and the same applies to those who were bled white on the battlefields as to those who tried to escape that fate by hiding in the shadows of neutrality."

And of course, if you take the side favouring the extrication of the dozens of "small...FINISHED...nations you are (of course)... branded as "charlatans or hopeless simpletons". Now where else have we heard this kind of invective in full flight?
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-15 10:56:16 UTC
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And with the recent "socialist" version of imposed "European Unity", all were co-equals!

Russia didn't control the political, economic and military policies of the Eastern European nations...not much!

There were also intrusions in the cultural sphere, but no more (fortunately) to 1) ensure the adherence to the three planks above and 2) insofar as beyond this wasn't Russia's (unlike the "USA's) ambition.


Of course Trotsky wasn't, in the heat of the Great War, presenting the (lack of) "options" of the small states as being the ideal condition for them, nor - as Mr Chamberlain does - as the ideal stepping stone to "Socialism", but condemning the fight of small nations to exit from the War as a viable programme.

For this - and for the ONLY solution to being under the heel of either Britain-France or Germany, Trotsky advocated "proletarian revolution".

So Mr Chamberlain "following in the footsteps of Trotsky" from the present - imposed - state of the EU and advocates the same "solution": not the fight of small nations to extricate themselves as nations, but to join in the fight for "proletarian revolution".

So there you have it: under capitalism, sovereignty of small nations is illusory and the programme of "reactionary simpletons". Independence of small nations is only permitted under "Socialism". And if any Trot were honest "World Socialism".
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-15 11:30:58 UTC
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https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/self-det/

On the other hand, we have these quotes from Lenin:
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, The Right of Nations to Self-Determination, 1. WHAT IS MEANT BY THE SELF-DETERMINATION OF NATIONS?

"...It is Rosa Luxemburg herself who is continually lapsing into generalities about self-determination (to the extent even of philosophising amusingly on the question of how the will of the nation is to be ascertained), without any where clearly and precisely asking herself whether the gist of the matter lies in legal definitions or in the experience of the national movements throughout the world.

A precise formulation of this question, which no Marxist can avoid, would at once destroy nine-tenths of Rosa Luxemburg’s arguments. This is not the first time that national movements have arisen in Russia, nor are they peculiar to that country alone. Throughout the world, the period of the final victory of capitalism over feudalism has been linked up with national movements. For the complete victory of commodity production, the bourgeoisie must capture the home market, and there must be politically united territories whose population speak a single language, with all obstacles to the development of that language and to its consolidation in literature eliminated. Therein is the economic foundation of national movements. Language is the most important means of human intercourse. Unity and unimpeded development of language are the most important conditions for genuinely free and extensive commerce on a scale commensurate with modern capitalism, for a free and broad grouping of the population in all its various classes and, lastly, for the establishment of a close connection between the market and each and every proprietor, big or little, and between seller and buyer.

Therefore, the tendency of every national movement is towards the formation of national states, under which these requirements of modern capitalism are best satisfied. The most profound economic factors drive towards this goal, and, therefore, for the whole of Western Europe, nay, for the entire civilised world, the national state is typical and normal for the capitalist period.

Consequently, if we want to grasp the meaning of self-determination of nations, not by juggling with legal definitions, or “inventing” abstract definitions, but by examining the historico-economic conditions of the national movements, we must inevitably reach the conclusion that the self-determination of nations means the political separation of these nations from alien national bodies, and the formation of an independent national state.

Later on we shall see still other reasons why it would be wrong to interpret the right to self-determination as meaning-anything but the right to existence as a separate state. At present, we must deal with Rosa Luxemburg’s efforts to “dismiss” the inescapable conclusion that profound economic factors underlie the urge towards a national state."

and

"Therefore, Rosa Luxemburg notwithstanding, the example of the whole of progressive and civilised mankind, the example of the Balkans and that of Asia prove that Kautsky’s proposition is absolutely correct: the national state is the rule and the “norm” of capitalism; the multi-national state represents backwardness, or is an exception. From the standpoint of national relations, the best conditions for the development of capitalism are undoubtedly provided by the national state. This does not mean, of course, that such a state, which is based on bourgeois relations, can eliminate the exploitation and oppression of nations. It only means that Marxists cannot lose sight of the powerful economic factors that give rise to the urge to create national states. It means that “self-determination of nations” in the Marxists’ Programme cannot, from a historico-economic point of view, have any other meaning than political self-determination, state independence, and the formation of a national state.

The conditions under which the bourgeois-democratic demand for a “national state” should be supported from a Marxist, i. e., class-proletarian, point of view will be dealt with in detail below. For the present, we shall confine ourselves to the definition of the concept of “self-determination”, and only note that Rosa Luxemburg knows what this concept means (“national state”), whereas her opportunist partisans, the Liebmans, the Semkovskys, the Yurkeviches, do not even know that!"
Vngelis
2016-05-15 14:32:08 UTC
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Right of small nations cannot be guaranteed by joining imperialist camps is my reading.
It didnt argue erase small nations for a bigger imperialist empire...

VN
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-16 01:26:10 UTC
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Post by Vngelis
Right of small nations cannot be guaranteed by joining imperialist camps is my reading.
It didnt argue erase small nations for a bigger imperialist empire...
VN
Right of small nations cannot be guaranteed by joining imperialist camps is my reading.
It didnt argue erase small nations for a bigger imperialist empire...
VN


But Trotsky paints independence - supposedly - "outside" - of camps as illusory. He was wrong on that. If he wasn't, then WHY the effort to join them up to the camps, in particular, the EU???? And why the enormous effort to keep them in???

Mr Chamberlain's* use the writings of Trotsky, ahistorically, selecting quotes in smorgasbord fashion aims to hide what he really wants which is is more enforced migration, out of the hands of the British people, and the British political process. His and the Far Left's aim is the same as that of the NWO: amalgamate nations under a central set of laws and you liquidate the many faceted views of 28 sovereign nations. THAT'S why they want it. The ideal cauldron for race replacement and race mixing. Without racial continuity all we have is a deracinated, pliant, mass, versus peoples with definite identities and sense of belonging, who live on the lands on which they biologically evolved (in the case of Australia & USA, effectively created).

So Chamberlain isn't seeking Trotsky's position - retention of small nations (but only through "Socialist Revolution")- but rather their total liquidation, something which is well underway within the EU, and the staying in of any of them will certainly ensure that. Britain getting out will give a certain fillip to the the reversal of this trend. And he knows it.


*A chamberlain is the officer in charge of managing the household of a royal - in his case, foreign figure - the EU Brussels Bureaucracy...
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-16 02:26:32 UTC
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The sinister motives of the Healyites are well known and the proof is pretty well in.

But notice how they take a different tack to Mr Chamberlain a nobody hailing from nowhere...

Particularly this quote:

"The Common Market is the last-ditch stand of European capitalism against the social revolution."



TO MARKET TO MARKET TO BUY A FAT…
By a Special Correspondent

Workers’ Press, Tuesday, May 30, 1972
Monopoly capitalism is the real inspiration behind the Common Market, not the noble ideals of liberal Europeans. The spirit and the letter of the Treaty of Rome and the philosophy which has guided the work of the Commission and the Council of Ministers in the last 15 years are dominated by the interests of big business.
If the EEC had not offered opportunities for the ruling circles of the six countries to vastly increase their fortunes, the troublesome process of trying to ‘harmonize’ the six different nations little by little would never have been started.
The ‘harmonization’ is necessary partly to facilitate the growth of West European monopolies strong enough to challenge the best US and Japanese corporations and partly to act as a propaganda smokescreen to try and deceive the middle and working classes with ideas of a ‘new European community’ to get them to go along with the project.
HARMONY
The Six — Germany, France. Italy, Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg — can never harmonize under capitalism into one nation, which is the dream of the pro-marketeer idealists, because competitive rivalry between the different finance-capital groups within the EEC will develop into bitter national hostility as soon as the difficulties of the world economic crisis really begin to bite.
As it is, little enough progress has been made towards ‘harmonization’ despite the undoubted success the Common Market countries have had in improving their trading position in the world. The EEC is still essentially what it was when it started—a customs union plus a common fund for aiding one industry: farming.
There are even doubts as to whether dismantling the tariffs between the Six was really the cause of their economic growth in the 1960s, since some grew even faster before they joined the EEC and other countries, like Japan, have grown much faster outside of any customs union.
But anyway, the Germans were happy to get their chance of political rehabilitation plus some trading advantages in return for a permanent subsidy to backward French agriculture, and the ‘European’ myth began to grow. Now Britain’s rulers have been conned into bankrolling inefficient peasant farming in return for the ‘opportunity’ to take on European industry in open competition without tariff protection.
Some UK monopolies will survive, either through merging with EEC companies or through shifting production into Europe. But many will crash, and even smaller firms will be ruined. Because of growing recession and sharper competition, the rate of bankruptcies will exceed even that of the recent Rolls-Royce, UCS, Vehicle and General period.
The ruling circles in the EEC believe that the present 15 West European car-producers, for example, will have to reduce to about five big monopolies in order to survive against the Japanese. There are too many steel companies as well. More shipyards will also have to close, and already the competition from Japan is so fierce that a cartel has been formed between all West European yards, including Britain’s, to limit further Japanese shipping sales.
Officially, the Rome Treaty aims to remove all obstacles, whether outside or inside the Market, which prevent the” free flow of goods, and the Commission in Brussels is dutifully ‘investigating’ the shipbuilding cartel in case it is an interference with free trade. But in practice the EEC will make sure its own industries are protected.
What is supposed to happen, if an EEC industry begins to decline, is that governmental investment aid can be injected to raise efficiency. What in fact is happening, in shipbuilding for example, is that straight production subsidies are being provided. This is against the Market’s philosophy, but is being justified on the grounds of ‘unfair’ Japanese competition.
Another distortion of competition which the Six have turned a blind eye to is the restrictive agreement between the major European and US steel producers, which the Americans have bullied the others into accepting.
It was as part of this monopolistic double-dealing that the Tories agreed to cut from 44 million tons capacity to 33 million tons Britain’s nationalized steel industry’s plans for expansion up to 1980. Once inside the EEC, further ‘rationalization’ seems inevitable.
But however much the ‘free-trade’ Common Market connives at this horse-trading, these international profiteers must eventually fall out with each other, partly because of the uneven development of capitalism which gives them different bargaining strengths and different ambitions, and partly because of the social pressures from below as in Britain, for example, when the going gets too rough for dockers, or miners, or shipbuilders, to tolerate any further contraction of their industries.
It is to get round such obstacles to the survival of monopoly capitalism that the Tory government has introduced its National Industrial Relations Court. Inside the EEC, there will be attempts to ‘harmonize’ the most successful methods from each country of disciplining the working class and to lend such methods the aura of ‘European’ status.
Consultative works’ councils, on the German model, which turn trade unionists into company-union men, are a certain starter. There are even plans for EEC-wide wage agreements, which would all be legally binding and would be designed to eliminate piecemeal militancy among European workers by banking on the hoped-for conservative majority to keep the rest in line. Such a system of European wage rates would also protect the established monopolies from .any potential low-wage area rivals.
This encouragement of monopolistic development, because of its alleged efficiency, will bear particularly hard on Britain with its ‘declining’ industries. Since they are not making the grade with the best. Since they are not making the grade with the best in Europe, then they should be put out of business, the Six believe. All industrial subsidies, in theory, are incompatible with the EEC’s guiding principles, and the whole range of Britain’s different financial aids to industry will be severely vetted during the first six months after entry.
Already it is certain that a lot of foreign investment, mainly American, which used to come to Britain and which has been the only safety valve in some areas such as Scotland where US electronics firms have replaced decaying older industries, will no longer come here. The EEC has established for its ‘central regions’ a limit of 20 per cent total for the various capital incentives used to draw in foreign firms. How much of Britain will fall outside of this ‘central regions’ designation and qualify for special assistance rates is not yet decided but it is likely to be much less than the 40 per cent at present qualifying for regional aid.
It was to avoid any charge by the Six of ‘interfering with competition’ that the Tory
government, despite much opposition, changed Britain’s investment allowance system from direct grants, regionally varied, to all-over free depreciation. In the eyes of the Rome Treaty, the former count as illicit aid to industry whereas the latter is merely part of Britain’s taxation system.
True, the eventual aim of the EEC is ‘harmonization’ of business taxes too, but with the normal speed of Common Market decision-making, that is still some way off.
MIGRATION
The end result of all this is bound to be bad for the UK’s ‘grey areas’. The phenomenon of the drift to the South East in Britain, which the unplanned evolution of the capitalist economy would have caused to grow even faster if it had not been deliberately checked, will now be deliberately encouraged — and on a European-wide scale. It means not just a likely movement of the steel industry to the South East, for example, to be nearer the European markets, but a movement of some industries out of Britain altogether and into the heartland of West Europe.
It is a repetition on a nationwide scale of that of driving workers into the overcrowded towns during the industrial revolution because that was where the work was.
Already over 2 million European workers have had to migrate to Germany to find jobs. The Department of Employment in London is already preparing plans to encourage people made redundant in the hard-hit areas of Scotland, Wales and the North of England, to go and look for work in Dusseldorf, Dortmund and Essen.
On top of this, the reformist measures adopted in post-war Britain of nationalizing ailing industries will be officially frowned upon once inside the EEC set-up. The threat to take away the gains already made will grow and it will become very difficult to relieve other threatened industries by similar measures in the future.
The Common Market does allow some aid to declining industries, but the national governments bear the cost and there are strict limits to what is permitted. There is a plan to eventually work out a Common Industrial Policy as a counterpart to the Common Agricultural Policy, but getting new measures adopted by the EEC governmental structure is such a painfully slow process, due to all the obstructionism, that it can be ignored for the present.
The immediate prospect is that the overwhelming proportion of the EEC budget— more than 90 per cent at present — will continue to be spent subsidizing inefficient agriculture. The French peasantry will remain an important factor in France and a right-wing government cannot remain in power without their support. The only way other inefficient or declining industries could be aided by the Community is through a huge increase in the budget. And unless there is anything in it for them, the French are unlikely to agree.
The unanimity principle still rules the Common Market governmental structure. If one country on the Council of Ministers dislikes a proposal, it cannot get through. The qualified majority rule only applies to small issues. The result is inertia. Things happen so slowly in the EEC that the best way to describe it is to say that all progress has come to a complete stop and then itemize the few exceptions.
High-technology research provides an example. In 1967, the Council of Ministers decided to overcome the technology gap between Europe and the USA by co-operating on research. A committee of experts was set up which spent the first year arguing about which fields to commence with and whether they should start at all without Britain’s participation.
Eventually, in 1969, a report went back to the Council, which then set up another committee of experts to appraise the report. Several more months passed before the report was adopted, but then another long wrangle began about which non-EEC countries should be invited to co-operate in implementing the report. Eventually 19 countries joined in the discussions. More time passed until finally on November 20, 1971, an agreement was signed.
And what emerged? The 19 nations agreed to put up between them a grand total of £8m to cover seven fields of research and to be spread over five years. This sum would have kept the five-year Concorde project going for just three weeks! And even this limited programme has not started yet because it still has to be ratified by the individual parliaments.
Just as much difficulty has been encountered in trying to harmonize regulations covering road and rail transport between the Six. One argument that has gone on for years and is still unresolved is how much petrol in a motor vehicle’s tank as it crosses a frontier should be subject to taxation at the rate applicable in the country it is entering, the point being that if a truck is allowed to fill up in a low-tax country and then ply, its trade in a higher-tax country, it is causing unfair competition to the trucks of the country it has entered.
Suggestions under discussion propose that the contents of any lorry’s petrol tank be measured at the border and a certain number of litres be allowed in tax free with extra duty to be paid on the rest
Progress has been slowest on harmonizing railway fares and regulations. Trying to shake together four privately-owned and two state-owned systems has proved beyond the EEC’s powers. They cannot agree which social costs should legitimately be borne by government subsidy and which should be discontinued as unfair interference with competition.
OBSTACLE
Other transport arrangements are less amusing. The EEC has just reached a compromise agreement after years of argument to allow 40-ton truck juggernauts onto all Common Market roads and to raise the permitted axle load to 11 tons. This will mean appreciably nosier and heavier lorries in Britain than at present. Many roads will be unable to take them.
The main obstacles to quicker progress in adapting new measures in the EEC is nationalism. It particularly hinders high-technology cooperation and fair competition in public purchasing. It is far easier for the Germans to sell an electric power station to Spain than to France. Where public-works contracts are won by ‘foreign’ firms, the agreement often requires that 75 per cent of parts and materials should be supplied locally.
American-style pork-barrel politics are influential here. An MP would be very unpopular if he allowed his national parliament to approve a lucrative public-works contract in his region going to a foreign firm rather than a local one.
The career civil servants who run the Commission in Brussels are deeply cynical about the lack of progress in building a real European community. They believe that procedures are now so badly clogged that they cannot continue in the same way much longer. They are placing a lot of hope on Britain’s entry to get things moving again, particularly on a Common Industrial Policy and reform of the European Parliament in Strasbourg, which is still a mere cipher.
The EEC has no democratic control mechanism, and its officials readily admit it. But the French have boycotted the EEC before when they have not got their own way, and they will do so again.
Generally speaking, nothing will happen inside the Common Market that does not suit the most powerful ruling circles within each country. If it does not help monopoly capitalism, then it will not take place.
COMPLAINT
For the present, however, the main battle is still with the outside world and the Common Market countries have their collective face turned against the United States and increasingly against Japan. The spread of generalized EEC preferences — to Spain, Portugal, Turkey and Greece — has infuriated the Americans, particularly, as well as the other General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade powers, against whom the trading preferences are given. But a showdown will have to wait till after the US presidential elections in November.
The list of American complaints against the Common Agricultural Policy is now enormous, almost as long, the Commission says acidly, as the EEC’s list of complaints against US trade restrictions.
Similar complaints are made against high Japanese tariffs and limited import quotas, but in the negotiations for a treaty with Japan, it is the Common Market countries who are somewhat nervously insisting on escape clauses, against the Japanese wishes, which allow imports to be cut off in a crisis.
The EEC countries are also trying to get a general agreement with Japan on ‘orderly marketing’, in other words to get the Japanese to ease up on their colossal export drive. The proposals have not been well received in the East. The Six are fearful that with the restrictions now being imposed by America on imports from Japan, the Japanese will redirect their trade offensive to Europe.
The ball-bearing industry, for example, is already coming under enormous pressure. The European ‘community’ is beginning to creak at the joints.
Meanwhile, American corporations continue to add to their already colossal investments in Europe and continue to exact £400m a year net profits by way of tribute. It conveniently covers their trade deficit with Europe of £400m a year. But the EEC’s exasperation at being off-loaded with billions of US dollars of dubious exchange value is mounting.

Any collapse of the US economy will deal a severe blow to the Common Market.
The Common Market is the last-ditch stand of European capitalism against the social revolution. If it is allowed to continue in being it can lead only to the establishment of fascism throughout the whole of western Europe. Consequently the struggle for the building of revolutionary parties under the banner of the Fourth International to establish the Socialist United States of Europe through the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism is the urgent task of the hour.
Vngelis
2016-05-16 09:32:08 UTC
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Trotsky wrote piece when?
Independence of small nations occurred under rise of SU or because capitalism broke.
Now without SU it is being merged ie their independence is being nailed to the mast.

VN
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-16 11:21:48 UTC
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Post by Vngelis
Trotsky wrote piece when?
Independence of small nations occurred under rise of SU or because capitalism broke.
Now without SU it is being merged ie their independence is being nailed to the mast.
VN
No SLL Workers’ Press 1972 (a year before "WRP"), Mitchell or someone smarter, with a wider view of things, not just conspiratorial investigations, maybe Tom Kemp.
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-16 11:22:41 UTC
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Post by t***@yahoo.com.au
Post by Vngelis
Trotsky wrote piece when?
Independence of small nations occurred under rise of SU or because capitalism broke.
Now without SU it is being merged ie their independence is being nailed to the mast.
VN
No SLL Workers’ Press 1972 (a year before "WRP"), Mitchell or someone smarter, with a wider view of things, not just conspiratorial investigations, maybe Tom Kemp.
I'll see if I can dig out more if you want them.
Vngelis
2016-05-16 17:06:43 UTC
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Yep
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-17 05:54:26 UTC
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Yep
OK. As usual, I won't discriminate, will post as they come...

This is all SLL-WRP, not Trotsky and all under Mitchell's editorship (as you know, he's is now in Australia and supports the Global Warming bullshit, "Refugees", and all the rest of the NWO Agendas in so far as I can ascertain by reading the fragments on the net). No surprises there. He always was not much more than a vegetarian guilt-ridden liberal worshiping at the feet of the Irish peasant.


BEHIND ANTI-IMMIGRANT CAMPAIGN IN LEICESTER
Workers Press, Wednesday September 23, 1972 PAGE 8

Leicester is a city with a Labour controlled council—but one which has agreed to implement the Tory ‘fair rents’ Act and is currently putting all its energies into keeping out as many Ugandan Asians as possible.

It is also a city where the National Front claims to have one of its largest branches with over 100 members.

Council leader Edward Marston is a typical Labour product of the post-war boom years, but in a radically-changed world his brand of politics has become fuel to movements like the National Front.

With the threatened influx of large numbers of Ugandan Asians, the council has gone to the lengths of taking space in all major Ugandan Asian newspapers explaining to immigrants that the city is a far cry from the land of their dreams.

Labour and Tory councillors joined forces to impress upon officials of the Ugandan Asian Resettlement Board who visited the city last week that their town was bursting at the seams.
The councillors told Board chairman Sir Charles Cunningham that any great influx of Asians could only heighten Leicester’s social problems and they called for compulsory direction of refugees.
Lord Mayor and lifelong Labour Party and trade union bureaucrat Edward Marston is the leader of the keep Asians out of Leicester campaign.

His comments to the press last week were indistinguishable from those of his Tory counterparts.
‘We would like to see some form of direction. This is the only hope of a solution to the situation.’
Tory Alderman Kenneth Bowder said: ‘We think that power of direction is the—only realistic way of solving this problem.

‘We are going to employ every means of persuasion and possibly some degree of control.’
Resettlement Board officials were shown a semi-detached house where it was claimed 14 Asians would be living shortly.

Afterwards Sir Charles surprised no one by saying: ‘From what we have seen today it would seem that everything should be done to discourage as many [Asians] as possible from coming to Leicester.’

Leaving elementary school at 14 to become an apprentice bricklayer, Marston became a self-made man at a time when capitalism’s opportunities for all really appeared to be on offer in seeming perpetuity.

The boom took the edge off the class war and Marston went into these years firmly —as a foreman bricklayer with the Co-op.

His sense of public as opposed to class responsibility carried him through every office locally in his union, the Amalgamated Union of Building Trade Workers, until, in 1950, he wound up as district president.

His performance in the union was repeated in the local Labour Party of which he is now the leader.
The same high sense of public duty took him onto the Building Trades Advisory Council, onto the local ‘river authority, to boards of school governors and the executive of the British Market Authorities.

The trust and regard in which officialdom held him was most marked in 1966 when, after the Home Office recommended local councils to set up ‘war committees’, consisting of not more than three members, Marston was one of those chosen at Leicester.

It was not a regard universally shared by workers in the town and during his term as chairman of the housing committee tenants at a meeting on the Mowmacre Estate shouted him down when he tried to justify high rents with the excuse that there was a heavy deficit in the housing subsidy.
And in January 1970, half way through his first term of office as Lord Mayor, the city bought Marston a new, £13,800 Rolls-Royce.

There was a public outcry at this, but not only did Mars-ton keep the car: in a speech the same month to the city’s Retail Credit Association he complained: ‘Many thousands of people are living beyond their means.”

After his lifelong career in the Labour and trade union bureaucracy he has become an outspoken advocate of policies which might make even some Tories quake.
srd
2016-05-17 03:01:39 UTC
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I'm glad, Dusty, that you finally accept that Trotsky was no advocate of patriotism.

[That doesn't mean that under conditions of national oppression as suffered by Greece Trotsky wouldn't advocate separation.]

srd
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-17 04:25:01 UTC
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Post by srd
I'm glad, Dusty, that you finally accept that Trotsky was no advocate of patriotism.
[That doesn't mean that under conditions of national oppression as suffered by Greece Trotsky wouldn't advocate separation.]
srd
These are just some quotes taken from his writings of 1915-16, trying to grapple with and respond to the diseased, contorted mind of Mr Chamberlain.

The divisions among his followers, grasping at Trotsky quotes taken from the late 30's to guide them in a far less overpowering set of somewhat analogous circumstances in the War indicates that the fight for the preservation of national independence was interpreted by some of importance to his line of reasoning.

It will never be known how Trotsky, Luxemburg, Lenin (less problematic)...would have responded to the situation of today, that of worldwide hegemonic Finance Capital driving for the liquidation of nation states, big and small. Nor is it of much practical importance. But my guess is that they wouldn't have displayed anything like the out and out identity of policy with Global Imperialism as that of their ostensible followers of today.

If they "did", then the only conclusion that could be reached would be that the long time Far Right Conspiratorial view, that they were Jews in the pay of the International Banking Houses, was correct all along. Insofar as Marx is concerned I have no doubts whatsoever: he would have become a Patriot-of-the-Nations to the extent necessary to defeat their extinction and to extract retribution on the perpetrators of the process.
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-18 10:25:34 UTC
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Post by srd
I'm glad, Dusty, that you finally accept that Trotsky was no advocate of patriotism.
[That doesn't mean that under conditions of national oppression as suffered by Greece Trotsky wouldn't advocate separation.]
srd
Easy one that. What is YOUR position on BREXIT?
t***@yahoo.com.au
2016-05-19 09:09:01 UTC
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Post by t***@yahoo.com.au
Post by srd
I'm glad, Dusty, that you finally accept that Trotsky was no advocate of patriotism.
[That doesn't mean that under conditions of national oppression as suffered by Greece Trotsky wouldn't advocate separation.]
srd
Easy one that. What is YOUR position on BREXIT?
SRD, you still around?
Dusty Track
2023-03-16 11:29:05 UTC
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